In many instances, really acquisitions are great to either feel growth on the company itself, either on the product or perhaps by adding a great talent, but unfortunately many M&A transactions fail really on the integration side of things. It seemed crazy that the real estate industry wasnt moving towards on demand. So what was that process like you were talking about, yes, your network of Harvard but can you share with us like what was that process of landing Kleiner on your seed round? For a winning deck, take a look at the pitch deck template created by Silicon Valley legend, Peter Thiel (see it here) that I recently covered. Everyone filling gaps where they could and it [07:02] fulfilling gaps in to where youre skilled and so I think the most obvious thing to do for that is to hire people with very different skill sets to you that allows you to never really have awkward overlap and egos because everyone is kind of skilled at something very unique. Fantastic. But theres no right answer in business. So watching board members from the early investments are [19:38] who now runs Good Water but was originally Kleiner and then Eric [19:42] from Kleiner and theyre both experts at product market set. Yeah, I mean BCG I think you get access to the 23 year olds CEOs who had been working for 40 years and kind of crazy in consulting you take the shortcut in your careers to being in the board room. Could you meet him? And so whereas that doesnt guarantee any success we obviously have to have really good numbers and a really good story to tell them. The one unifying theme in every fundraising Ive run is momentum. Great question. Anthemos Georgiades: No. Look how quickly our revenue are scaling. So our CFO is fantastic and what he was able to bring to the series C was real credibility where I meet the investors, get them excited about our vision and our story and then they spend hours with the CFO on the second or third meeting digesting our historical financial as were talking about where were headed. So I saw for example Axle Springer which is you know more kind of like the corporate. It just really helps to divide and conquer like that while I was meeting new investors again. In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. If you dont have those connections, I think this is where like a lot of these accelerators and incubators, Y Combinator or Techstars or Launch are really good where you can apply. So what I wanted to ask you here is in terms of on boarding lets say this type of, because its a different beast, you know type of investors so how does the approach from evaluating an investor that is a VC, an angel or an angel group shift towards evaluating a potential strategic corporation that is looking to become part of your cap table? At scale you get to do that and have those teams. I think if you set these expectations from the very beginning that are super important. I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. Think Masterclass for Management. So the way we monetize this is we either monetize the landlord mainly and we either charge them to leads. But theres no right answer in business. The reality is often in the early stages, youre going to want to take all the capital thats given to you and you may not have multiple term sheets. I learned more from you than you learned from me, and then your job as CEO is to do kind of two or three things, that is to continue to advance like the vision and the mission of the company and keep everything strategically aligned. So strategically that was a good marriage where they had a great consumer brand and we have really fantastic supply side inventory. Every fantastic company has had hundreds of nos on the way to kind of huge outcomes and you just cant take it personally. It is not suppose to be easy. So it doesnt always work out and I think thats fine. And were they like obviously now youre opening here the cap table to a different breed and I guess when that happen probably at a strategic level lets say from a board perspective or something you know, maybe you receive some type of recommendations whether it was with this corporation or with other corporations as to what perhaps to look for and what to avoid. I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. It was incredibly difficult. They were super lean team of under five people and its been a great deal for Zumper like we have one backend, one sales team and then two consumer platforms. I mean to a point network gets you an intro but a lot of intros are 10 minute meetings where the VC immediately decides its not for them which is totally fair. So Id say your first month you spend like getting first, second, third meeting. I dont think theres a startup I could have launched that taught me more. At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Alrightee. We envisioned a world in which a renter can find apartments, book in [tour 10:18], turn up the [10:21] and if they want to take the apartment pre-qualify, leave a deposit and book the apartment. Keeping good lines of communication open can solve many landlord/tenant problems. How does the day to day at Zumper work? Got it. Yeah. And so I finally just gave in and thought no one is going to build this. Its hard. They wanted to close apartments like they book a hotel and so took the status of like 35 different apartments we leased using the technology in San Francisco to VCs and said, Hey, were really going to rebuild all of this but heres some data that shows this really can work at scale, and thats how we raised the first million dollars from some of the names that you mentioned. Of course. How does the day to day at Zumper work? I was also doing, Ive been doing marketplaces for I think like 10 years now and I remember in the last company, I would go and meet with investors and they kept asking me for the chicken and the egg. We saw it would take three to six months to integrate Pat Mapper and their backend that engineering project we worked really hard and quickly just over a year to integrate so we underestimated like how much work was required to integrate them by 3x. Alejandro: Got it. How many listings do we have on the site? Like what have you seen that really works? Its a good question. I say like in the first pitch to the day the money wires, theres always been around like a minimum of three months. 1. So what I wanted to ask you here is in terms of on boarding lets say this type of, because its a different beast, you know type of investors so how does the approach from evaluating an investor that is a VC, an angel or an angel group shift towards evaluating a potential strategic corporation that is looking to become part of your cap table? So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. 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I was really impressed when because its not hard, its almost impossible to land VC such as Kleiner Perkins on literally your first financing round, the seed round. And even though that sounds so obvious six years later, people just werent doing this in 2011, 2012 and we created a bunch of data that overwhelming shows the renters wanted to be applying for apartments from their phone. It happened but I wouldnt say its like an obvious part. Its so hard to get marketplaces liquidity so correct, the beautiful thing as you know is when you have it, it took us three years to get to that, it just runs and you just grow naturally when you have both sides but its so hard to get to it. Alejandro: And talking about hustling the network, was there any because I mean those networks that you have I think the network of Harvard is really fantastic and then you know the BCG as well but is there like any process that you followed to really like leverage the network? He runs all the background of operation and he came from the real estate industry, two completely different background and neither of them was an obvious pick when I started the company at grad school. And for you I guess personally and professionally because I think they both come together, so how has your leadership and management skills changed over the time from leading the company of lets say four to ten folks initially to a company of over a hundred employees? Got it. So today, we have another founder and another one that is quite successful in their own paths. Thats just part of the game. Its a good question. Alejandro Cremades leads the vision and execution for Panthera Advisors as its Co-Founder and. Pat Mapper caters to 25 and under and kind of big college populations. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Since 2012, Anth has grown Zumper to over 100 employees and raised $90 million in venture capital for the company. I mean at the end of the day, building and scaling companies especially when youre at the early stages is all about survival and its all about learning to be with each other behind the trenches and really going to war and having each others backs. Meaning hey, we send you a ton of leads this month that close in to leases. You kind of just all in [06:39] I think where the carving of the rose start to happen for me around 10, 12 people where you no longer just have [06:49]. And were they like obviously now youre opening here the cap table to a different breed and I guess when that happen probably at a strategic level lets say from a board perspective or something you know, maybe you receive some type of recommendations whether it was with this corporation or with other corporations as to what perhaps to look for and what to avoid. Theyre both incredibly smart as are my executive team who are also like critical to fundraise where Ill go in and sell the vision often alone. So I guess like I have one thing to follow up on this. Georgiades founded Zumper after his own . You look at your cofounders and you know that they understand that and that theyre not freaking out, that is where you build real institutional culture and then you try and grow that across the team. Thank you so much. And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. A lot of it was completely bottom up. In the first two or three years you will kill your marketplace if you create any barriers to entry from either side. If you guys are Zumper website, you can kind of kind at zumper.com the Contact Us or on Twitter I am just @anthemos, A-N-T-H-E-M-O-S on Twitter and yeah, I respond to people. Remember to unlock for free the pitch deck template that is being used by founders around the world to raise millions below. He was with HBS 10 years ago. Alejandro: So Im completely there with you. Really, really nice to have you here and excited for the chat that we have ahead here. For every successful fundraise, every single company have a lot of nos. rex harrison audrey hepburn relationship. Over time, its great to be able to bring in your team. Great question. See How I Can Help You With Your Fundraising Efforts. So we solved it to the first two years purely by getting landlords on board through various kind of product strategy and so our growth cuts for the first two years that we raised the [27:41] were purely about landlords and listing. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. And I mean its quite a few cofounders. Yeah. They were super lean team of under five people and its been a great deal for Zumper like we have one backend, one sales team and then two consumer platforms. Got it. I really enjoyed it and great stuff. Were very clear with Axle Springer that we have a lot of consumer scale so a lot of people use our platform on a monthly basis but were still building the [21:55]. So the series B, weve done story now look at how quickly the renters are growing on the platform. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. Alejandro: Really, really nice to have you here and excited for the chat that we have ahead here. At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Thank you so much. Got it. So one is weve always promoted within so whenever we needed a role, we always prefer to promote someone instead of hiring from outside. Were very clear with Axle Springer that we have a lot of consumer scale so a lot of people use our platform on a monthly basis but were still building the [21:55]. But I will say the one thing is true is that you always raise on momentum. Anthemos Georgiades: Oh wow, good question. So I saw NEA, Kleiner Perkins, Graylog, Andreesen Horrowitz, just to name a few. Alejandro: And did you diversify this responsibility with the other cofounders or was there one of you guys that has always been leading the chart on the financing side? They take every, some people go and warm theirif you have a brilliant idea, theyd be crazy not to take it and then their entire value is obviously give you a three month program and then at the end expose you to liek 40 investors. Could you meet him? And so whereas that doesnt guarantee any success we obviously have to have really good numbers and a really good story to tell them. His passion for relieving the stress for others in apartment rentals has given birth to a venture which has now raised $90 million, has experienced tremendous growth, and boasts a VC line up of some of the most prized investors in Silicon Valley. We saw it would take three to six months to integrate Pat Mapper and their backend that engineering project we worked really hard and quickly just over a year to integrate so we underestimated like how much work was required to integrate them by 3x. I mean youre doing various jobs, head of sales, head of finance, head of fundraising, head of like DZ. So you acquire not long ago Pat Mapper and how did this come together? Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. So for the business, Anthemos, how much capital have you guys raised today? How much respect is there? Got it. I learned more from you than you learned from me, and then your job as CEO is to do kind of two or three things, that is to continue to advance like the vision and the mission of the company and keep everything strategically aligned. I think if you set these expectations from the very beginning that are super important. Saying that, if you do have multiple term sheets the second point is of course, like before you get to liquidity, revenue is irrelevant and if revenue gets in the way of bringing either the consumer on to your platform or the supply side person on to your platform, you should not be trying to charge. Terms & Conditions! So it was never I want to be an entrepreneur journey. In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. We love our investors. Raising money first, marketplace businesses is still really difficult and Ive raised $90 million and Im still saying it is difficult. The most important thing is to surround yourself with an amazing support group because it is so much harder to build a company than I thought it was and the emotional resilience you need to get through the dark days and come back to the bright days even now is what [38:54] just get harder like yeah, we have more revenue now but with that there are people [38:58] and like huge revenue targets we have to attain and so the most important thing is surround yourself with a network of family, friends, mentors, peers, your team, your investors, whoever is an emotional crutch for you where you can take from them but also maybe get back to them as well when theyre having a tough time, thats the single most important thing is look after your mental health because it is lonely and it is stressful and if youre able to kind of be resilient you have a great outcome but it is really hard on some days to push through, so build that around just [39:35] and you can be happy while running your company. He remains a huge Tottenham Hotspur fan, and wakes up painfully every Saturday morning to tune into the live English soccer games. . Got it. And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Got it. So the way we monetize this is we either monetize the landlord mainly and we either charge them to leads. Had worked in politics. And frankly, the process is a pain in the ass. Then behind the scenes, Zumper will close the transaction with the landlord and set the renter up with kind of rent payment. Yeah. How do you take a company with those tractions, 10 million in revenue. Additionally, Anthemos Georgiades has had 2 past jobs including Consultant at The Boston Consulting Group. It was kind of [31:51] as early as we did to buy another stock up that was kind of four years in. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. Of course. Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. Zumper has 7 current employee profiles, including CEO and co-founder Anthemos Georgiades. So all good companies have multiple offers on the table. I say like in the first pitch to the day the money wires, theres always been around like a minimum of three months. Its a Greek name, British accent. Got it. How autonomous can people be at the junior levels? Well, today's guest noticed that experience and wanted to improve it. I think just up front boundaries before you close the round is super important. Yeah. I think its easy not to set those expectations and get caught in the relationship where neither side is being clear on what they expect. At series B, you got to show product market set across the board with the revenue and then at series C, you got to show real traction and real revenue and a proper P&L. Yeah. You can set the expectations and then see what happens and if its not a good fit upfront, you can go with the different option on the table. In the early days, youre going to need to take all the capital you can get. I think Id say forget everything you think you know and everything, your education [38:28]. You know its interesting that you mentioned the chicken and the egg. Two sided marketplaces are so difficult. Zumper CEO and co-founder May 2012 Board and Advisor Roles Number of Current Board & Advisor Roles 1 Anthemos Georgiades is the Board Member at Zumper. We raised like a million dollars in seed money, that was running out so we tried various things that didnt work and I think the fabric of our culture that is still true today when we have a hundred people is built in the dark days and those days where your stuff is not working, your users arent growing, and how you look at your teammates and how you guys turn up on a Monday morning after a really crappy week the week before where maybe someone quit or maybe the metrics went south. And were just a little earlier than obviously a public company so our gross is spikier. Alejandro: Got it. Got it. I grew up in London. Youre supposed to try six things that dont work. Township Of Ocean Police Department. Yeah. So I guess what was the timeline of this C round compared to perhaps your seed round of 2012? @zumper Stories Uncategorized I dont think theres a startup I could have launched that taught me more. It is ultimately the culture. So Anthemos, whats the business model here? So watching board members from the early investments are [19:38] who now runs Good Water but was originally Kleiner and then Eric [19:42] from Kleiner and theyre both experts at product market set. Taylor Glass-Moore Co-Founder. And talking about hustling the network, was there any because I mean those networks that you have I think the network of Harvard is really fantastic and then you know the BCG as well but is there like any process that you followed to really like leverage the network? I think if you hire four cofounders like yourself, thats difficult and luckily we didnt have that problem. You know marketplaces and liquidity is king like you were pointing to finding what you need in the shortest period of time because otherwise theyre going to go elsewhere. So the majority of that is still in the bank but yeah, we raised money in capital [12:00]. Got it. So seed, series A, series B, series C, I was always the point person in the fundraise. And even though that sounds so obvious six years later, people just werent doing this in 2011, 2012 and we created a bunch of data that overwhelming shows the renters wanted to be applying for apartments from their phone. So in terms of timeline, you were mentioning that the C round, you guys closed this 46 million a couple of months ago. So you acquire not long ago Pat Mapper and how did this come together? The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. They may not understand marketplace as well as you but they may be able to bring a brilliant way of thinking about how to bring the supply on [30:20]. Alejandro: Got it. We both wanted to be entrepreneurs. Alejandro: Got it. Were incredibly grateful for everything she did and she remains kind of shareholder in the company. Anthemos Georgiades is the CEO and co-founder at Zumper. And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. A lot of that is in the bank. Got it. You can filter down by city and . That is where your focus is and even though you kind of missed doing some of the stuff and the weeds and my team continue to tell me to get away from the weed and continue to [36:12] the 50,000 set, you have to let it go and trust your team to do a better job than you were doing. Zumper which is a little bigger in terms of audience now caters more to urban professionals moving within cities. They are brilliant about. Alejandro: Of course. I mean if you could give some kind of like tips you know both fronts it would be really fantastic.
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